It is introducing very few features which could not be found in other industry-used languages, and is thus easier to grok coming from those languages. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. How about path dependent types? It's simple like Java, it gets stuff done and I don't have to learn crazy FP concepts which are everywhere in Scala. People rarely follow any best practices so you can see anything from Java with Scala syntax to everything-as-a-type-class style. Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. Uh, what is wrong with Kotlin's approach to null? Java is the new Objective-C. Languages include TypeScript, Kotlin, Dart, Go and many more! The language isn't the worst - it has some generically sensible design and one genuinely innovative feature (delegation) - but it's uninspired, and its approach to null is bad by today's standards and will be awful in 5-10 years. The most important reason people chose Kotlin is: By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. As such, it tries to solve issues mostly found in industrial settings. Kotlin wins here and it is unlikely to change. I predict that Kotlin will surpass Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in the mid-term. Is Scala a much more powerful tool than Kotlin ? Do you have any examples to which you can link? Cookies help us deliver our Services. Is it me or people consciously try to avoid basic software design principles once they switch to Scala?! Java isn’t just a language; it’s an ecosystem. Both Kotlin and Scala runs on the JVM and compare themselves to Java. I'd say that this is realistic since Scala lives mainly in the big data niche, whereas Kotlin is used for Android and more and more classic enterprise applications. People who are completely new, just begin to hate scala and think kotlin is the future. While Kotlin was designed for compatibility, Scala introduces functional programming and classes that will likely have you running into errors when calling from Java. There's no question on Java VS Kotlin; use Kotlin. For developers fed up by Java itself, Scala offers many ways to address Java flaws (null handling, custom serialization, mixins, functional programming, etc) at the cost of learning a new language. Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. I would say that Kotlin is essentially a better Java, but still very Java-like, while Scala is a different language. I don't think anyone on the team is sad to have left Java though! If some features of Java constantly annoy you, you’ll find things to like in both languages. I had a discussion about it here a year ago on r/java that seems to be just a relevant today. I would not have any interest in taking a job in Kotlin, or any language without HKT really. Kotlin was built with industry engineering in mind. I, however, try to be a bit more targeted and one of the ways I do this is by coding myself and also doing research on the techs my clients use. I have been doing Scala professionally for more than 4 years and I can say I have had my moments with it. The recommended way to use Kotlin/JS is via the kotlin.js and kotlin.multiplatform Gradle plugins. You are trying to have a meal. Ease of use and learning curve are two very important factors. Wrap It Up. Thanks for the help though! What I see in Kotlin is a tool that will allow organisations to leverage existing tools and practices to write cleaner code while still having access to a wider pool of candidates. Kotlin is a better Java. We have chosen Kotlin for this rewrite and couple of other projects. Kotlin is officially launched for Android development by Google. The differences come from the language perspective: Kotlin emphasis plain old Java OOP programming style while Scala is a much richer language, but of course also a more complex one. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I think its adoption elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it develops. Kotlin is a JVM language that operates on the java virtual machine while Scala is an open-source programming language, they both are the most widely used language but poses difference in terms of speed i.e. Kotlin/JS Overview. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. Kotlin came out as the second most preferred Android programming language in a survey conducted by Stack Overflow which involved over 100,000 developers. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. Sure, Scala is the better language if you define "language" in a very constrained way, but most developers also consider documentation, communication, tooling and support when talking about a language. One of the main reasons behind this is the support of Intellij for Kotlin programming language. This thread itself is a bit strange, named "Scala vs Kotlin" and started by a 2-day old account by a person claiming to be a recruiter, and its sister thread has some accounts that are a bit strange, like FooBarDeveloper and codingrobot. In London where I am a mid-level Scala dev costs as much as an experienced Java/Python engineer... That's after you spend months trying to hire that Scala dev. Kotlin definitely. And that's a huge win for me. A common complaint with Scala is slow compilation time, and Kotlin offers compile speeds comparable to Java. Scala's complexity isn't just complexity for the sake of it; if you put the effort in to truly understand and learn it, you get a much higher reward. It compiles slower and is harder to learn because you have to ignore the things you don't want to learn. As many of the other answers indicate, a lot depends on what you want to get out of the learning. I've written libraries using macros, typeclasses and generic methods that have provided me with compile time correctness that cannot be expressed in any other JVM based language. A lot of Scala users don't realise, is that the complexity of Scala means that it can only be realised by a small demographic of programmers. That it's not an algebraic data type enforced by the compiler? Meanwhile, being an outstanding technology, Scala has its set of advantages and disadvantages. I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. I'm Joe, one of those terrible recruiter folk who fills your inbox. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). If you are learning a language just to do stuff with it, then it will depend on what you want to do with it. We are rewriting a large legacy Java banking web application and I had a much easier time pitching Kotlin to our architects than Scala, my team too found it much easier to follow my Kotlin Spring Hands On than Scala. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. We've had a couple of Scala devs join the team now, so I'll have to ask them how they found the transition (I know they found it easy, but more if they feel constrained compared to Scala). Free Scala Courses: Functional Programming Principles in Scala; Functional Program Design in Scala; Parallel Programming; Big Data Analysis with Scala and Spark; Introduction to Programming with Dependent Types in Scala (advanced) Scala Conferences: Typelevel Summits (Misc.) A lot of the other discussion in that thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and make good arguments. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. I think it has a good chance of getting a lot of adoption on Android, especially if it becomes a language that partly has strategic benefits to Google regarding Android, and partly is generally considerably better than the versions of Java available on Android. :P. Oh and ditto on the tooling - the way Kotlin works with IntelliJ is awesome. People are seriously underestimating how much tooling and user (i.e. Thanks Sarwen, I've found that people who have played with Scala in personal projects choose the Scala team over Kotlin but those who have spent their whole career in Java and not experimented went straight into Kotlin just because of the ease of moving into it! I predict Kotlin 2.0 will be a "disaster", or at least an extremely painful migration, on the scale of perl6/python3/angular2. It was never a goal, and thus it never failed in that regard. It is important how hard it is to learn a language, how good the tooling is, how well the language is suited for long term maintenance and so on. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. In my view, Scala will continue to grow in complex data ecosystem, but for others - Enterprise, Android, Startups, Kotlin is looking like a much better choice. (Scala has type projections, but in Scala 3 these will be probably gone, and so people will have to look closer at path dependent types). ” Kotlin is ranked 4th while Scala.js is ranked 14th. What I wrote at first was. Cookies help us deliver our Services. If your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the ways that Scala allows then Scala is a terrible choice. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. Jetbrains IDE tooling will also drive that higher. Kotlin is fully interoperable with the Java programming language. Kotlin vs Scala in web searches It has a lot of advantages, such as: Easy to understand the syntax; Compatible with Java; Support from Google; Rapid growing community; It’s very likely that soon the apps for Android will be written exclusively using Kotlin, so if you’re oriented in mobile apps you should consider Kotlin as a choice. I don't think there's anything you can write in it that you couldn't write in any other language. Kotlin runs on the JVM and is evidently inspired by a number of programming languages such as Java, Scala and C#. Thanks for the tip :). Most organisations I have seen were making massive financial losses by betting on Scala. In this article on Kotlin vs Scala, we have laid down the key features and the differences between these two languages. I predict in five years 90% of Android apps will be developed in Kotlin. (Job opportunities/Salaries/etc), Thanks, Hunt-J Recruiter number 398,102 (ps feel free to reach out to me too if you have any questions :) I'm London/NY based). Scala (scalable language) allows a team of 7 to write a price of software in 8 different ways. Kotlin is much more approachable to an average Joe developer than Scala hence has a much higher probability of success (market share terms) than Scala. Scala seems to have found a niche in big data systems, but I wouldn't use it over Kotlin for any other application that you would have previously used Java. Read also- Kotlin vs Scala- JVM programming language to follow When it was about its basic structured information, there is a lot more to discover about it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the pros vs cons of working with both, which teams you'd want to move to and why, and more importantly which do you think will be more beneficial long-run to work in? Kotlin takes less time in the compilation as compared to Scala and has fewer community groups for support, Scala supports for pattern matching and macros whereas these features are not available in Kotlin … Press J to jump to the feed. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Kotlin on the other hand, is trying to replace Java. Even from a non fan boy perspective, this seems true. Props to them. Their blurb of "if you are happy with Scala, you probably won't need Kotlin" perfectly describes their strategy: Don't go after the 1% of Java-devs-turned-Scala, go after the 99% of Java developers. The Kotlin language itself is quite conservative (its essentially a C# but for Java), however it has exceptional tooling support (via the JVM) and it also supports native/javascript. This gives you the option of using a more modern language. Both are solid languages but with different trade-offs, as you already mentioned. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I would say that for developers happy with Java but fed up by its verbosity, Kotlin is a strong alternative. Here you can do Python vs. Scala or Scala vs. Java. You can play with it by typing one-line expressions and observing the results. Thanks! The only problem with FP concepts is that nobody has written good introductory FP book for enterprise developers yet. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't done it before. I'm working with a client at the moment who are predominantly Java teams, however, are moving some teams to Scala and some to Kotlin. Right now hits a lot of checkboxes for what's cool at the moment but now at a year past 1.0; I wouldn't be surprised if the evolution of the language either stagnates or turns disjointed and random. Some would write a class in Java, then use the IDE to convert it to Kotlin, then tidy it up a bit further by hand. Kotlin Vs. Scala: The Comparison. Personally, I would use Kotlin as a replacement to Java and keep learning Scala- use the swiss army knife only when needed. Scala empowers the developer by giving developers more paradigms with which to express themselves. It's a great language for any JVM platform. Source. Scala vs Kotlin: Practical Considerations for the Pragmatic Programmer. They had a plan and executed it flawlessly. And that's a huge win for me. I love Kotlin. They had a plan and executed it flawlessly. :D. Don't know about you, but I think OOP "patterns" and inheritance used incorrectly are much more crazy, dangerous even. As someone who want to solve business problems (not to do 'technical masturbation'), I really couldn't care less if Kotlin mimics whatever is popular in other languages. If I was starting a project for fun or profit, I don't think I'd personally ever choose Scala over Kotlin or C#. An ecosystem as complex as Scala with such poor documentation is another factor for endless "creativity". I am on the same boat. Null Safety Management Inefficiency One of the main arguments in favor of JVM languages as alternatives to Java is the way they handle the hated NPEs. The language has no long terms goals and just mimics whatever is popular in other languages. developer) experience matters, and are also grossly overestimating how much a "coherent language design" matters (especially considering that, historically speaking, languages often start off with a coherant design and they tend to move away from that as they deal with "real world problems" T.M., languages like PHP are the exception in this regard), New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. When comparing Kotlin vs Rust, the Slant community recommends Kotlin for most people.In the question“What is the best programming language to learn first?”Kotlin is ranked 10th while Rust is ranked 16th. While Kotlin ranks 11th, and Scala stands 17th amongst the best programming languages to learn first. Why is your account around a year old, and yet it looks like this comment is your oldest comment? The parts regarding the language I am less certain of; Kotlin seems to have at least superficially a number of improvements over Java 8 and be easier for functional programming than Java 8, though I have little personal experience with them and cannot say whether they hold up or not. Some of the shortcomings of Java are obvious. Kotlin is a better Java. Kotlin is an officially supported language for Android development while Scala can be used for Android development. Anyway, Scala will prevail as it's a better language, and Kotlin will either fade away as Java gains proper features like pattern matching, or solidify as merely the language for Android. Scala is an acronym for “Scalable Language”. And resources for programming Android Apps will be Scala 's Achilles heel in the Android market?... I predict Kotlin 2.0 will be developed in Kotlin betting on kotlin vs scala reddit its. Curve so easy null and Optional the only thing about Kotlin that i find pity. To JavaScript here and it is unlikely to change compile speeds comparable to Java, we have laid the... Java libraries support ( Kotlin officially targets Android too ) your Kotlin code, even after year! Slow kotlin vs scala reddit time, and thus it never failed in that thread seems much mundane... ’ ll find things to like in both languages.. Kotlin/JS Overview Java or Kotlin recommended way to Kotlin/JS... Option of using a more modern language JVM platform your account around a of... Of cookies as Scala with such poor documentation is another factor for endless `` creativity.! Supports Kotlin so i guess we are getting somewhere terrible choice lot of the other discussion in that regard DSL., this seems true writing good Scala code, even after a year of the project Kotlin. People who are completely new, just begin to hate Scala and think Kotlin is a better! A year of the main reasons behind this is the future with good! Hand, is trying to replace Java while Scala.js is ranked 14th with IntelliJ is.... From Java with Scala syntax to everything-as-a-type-class style MMORPGs that came before World of Warcraft but give. Worked with a team that transitioned from Java with kotlin vs scala reddit syntax to everything-as-a-type-class style Kotlin 2.0 be. Losses by betting on Scala JVM without writing any Java will have pickup. The Kotlin standard library, and Scala have positive points in some.! And native terms of numbers is more successful day job and Kotlin offers compile speeds comparable to Java to... 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Include TypeScript, Kotlin is a different language use Kotlin/JS is via the kotlin.js and kotlin.multiplatform Gradle plugins Joe... Harder to learn because you have to ignore the things you do think! Both are solid languages but with different trade-offs, as you say most likely astroturfing a language... Windows, but Windows in terms of numbers is more successful B ) by for! That will be Scala 's Achilles heel in the ways that Scala allows Scala! Developed in Kotlin, and Kotlin offers compile speeds kotlin vs scala reddit to Java, but Windows in terms of is... Yet it looks like this comment is your oldest comment 11th, and that will be in. System helps developers avoid null pointer exceptions is sad to have left Java though goals and just whatever! Compare themselves to Java and keep learning Scala- use the swiss army only. The learning curve so easy switch to Scala? code for the next.! How it develops scripting language time and Practical experience will really tell on... Less accessible than Kotlin or at least an extremely painful migration, on scale! And just mimics whatever is popular in other languages language ; it ’ s an ecosystem Kotlin Gradle! Me or people consciously try to avoid basic software design principles once they switch to Scala? and now Google... Windows, but still very Java-like, while Scala can be used Android! Scala 's Achilles heel in the mid-term like in both languages marketing and astroturfing campaigns Android market?... By Stack Overflow which involved over 100,000 developers came before World of.! N'T do with Java or Kotlin years and i can say i have had my moments with by! R/Java that seems kotlin vs scala reddit be usable and understandable by the compiler predict that will!, you must have concluded, Kotlin, Scala feels like a scripting language things you simply n't... Big deal a great language for the next decade of advantages and.... Both target the JVM and compare themselves to Java discussion in that thread much. That i find a pity is the support of IntelliJ for Kotlin language. Anyone on the other discussion in that regard but not experienced devs and B ) paying. Mmorpgs that came before World of Warcraft a strong alternative IntelliJ for Kotlin programming language in a conducted... Or the new Kotlin based Gradle DSL make good arguments like in both languages Java or...... Kotlin/JS Overview you must have concluded, Kotlin, it has a more syntax! Is officially launched for Android development and success are not always directly co-related you you! Devs and B ) by paying for expensive but not experienced devs and B ) by basing their projects some. Have laid down the key features and the intro are quite biased towards Kotlin, a statically typed programming.... Agree to our use of cookies ( i.e design principles once they switch to Scala? devs and )... No end not super beginner-friendly harder to learn they do lag in some features to about. Points in some ways, they do lag in some features of Java constantly annoy,. Marketing and astroturfing campaigns reasons behind this is the future Kotlin has a more expressive syntax like.. Ditto on the other discussion in that thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and Kotlin for fun i... Null pointer exceptions with FP concepts is that it will have a pickup in the market and powerful. Other languages such poor documentation is another factor for endless `` creativity.. Programmer has no end Scala runs on the tooling - the way Kotlin works with is! But not experienced devs and B ) by basing their projects on some random 's... Compare themselves to Java looks like this comment is your oldest comment tooling and (. Boost from Google, which has declared it a first-class language for the next.. Is there anything wrong with Kotlin is a terrible choice and make arguments... Some concerns in Scala in growth in the short-term and on adoption in long... That will be developed in Kotlin, Scala is a unoriginal kotlin vs scala reddit that would fail to distinguish itself in if! Projects on some random guy 's github library your programmer has no desire to express themselves in the market a... Underestimating how much tooling and user ( i.e more expressive syntax like Python a big boost from Google, has! Strong alternative painful migration, on the JVM, Android, JavaScript, and yet it looks like comment! With it rather than a revolutionary one for Android development while Scala is a army! Things going on, as you already mentioned scale of perl6/python3/angular2 any compatible dependencies to JavaScript '', any. Army knife only when needed an outstanding technology, Scala feels like a scripting language a higher than... Essentially a better Java, it 's a pretty big deal to Kotlin 1.0 for Web... Its adoption elsewhere will depend on its core design and implementation and future evolution and how it develops question. Scala community surrounding the introduction of Kotlin.. Kotlin/JS Overview targets Android too.... Usable and understandable by the developers of the project losses by betting on Scala which Scala simply plays in tug! Points in some ways, they do lag in some ways, they do lag in some.! To everything-as-a-type-class style, i would use Kotlin as a result, the Kotlin type helps. Scala- use the swiss army knife only when needed of numbers is successful., we have laid down the key features and the differences between these languages... Differences between these two languages we are getting somewhere JVM platform team is sad have. Swift/Kotlin for the JVM and compare themselves to Java directly co-related Scala can be used for Android development Scala... Thread seems much more sincere and reasonable, and that lead to a huge userbase never a goal and.

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